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Nik Semenoff
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Etching copper plates
« on: July 21, 2008, 10:31:19 AM »

Recently I have been working on a safer and cheaper way to produce a mordant that etches copper plates as effectively as ferric chloride or acids. It may not work quite as fast as these, but certainly fast enough for most printmakers. Having good results but trying to workout even a bit better process testing various materials.  I presume etchers working in copper might be interested. It doesn't take much chemistry once setup and established. More later.
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ainesse
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Re: Etching copper plates
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2008, 04:06:42 PM »

Hello Nik

Great to hear about this new mordant you are working on for etching copper !!!  I look forward to hearing more about it.  I am wondering though if it will require that particular stop outs etc are used as opposed to say acrylic etch  eg "Lascaux" or eg traditional hard ground?

I have been horribly ill for the past three months and am trying to get going again and thought I would check out these forums.  Which, I might add, I truly appreciate....that's what I love about printmaking.

I can't understand why more printmakers aren't as  curios as I am, to find out and share their findings on here also.

best wishes

Aine

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LindaK
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Re: Etching copper plates
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2008, 06:55:59 AM »

Hi, Nik...
you've got my attention also.
It's time for me to get back to etching.  I'm far from being able to deal with acids at the moment...bought the Robertson book "INTAGLIO" and have been playing with the Lascaus hard/soft resists for fine line work...hoping it will give me some satisfaction while I do homework, which led me to your site.
I'm very, very interested in setting up to etch aluminum.
You've got lots of information out there...I've got lots of reading to do.
I had enough etching at the SAIC that nothing is strange to me...
I'm really interested in these "new directions"...
Isolated with a really old etching press (about which I've got questions...know where I could post pictures and questions?) doing this myself....I am not shy about asking questions.

Aine...I bookmarked the links you posted...read a little...will read more.  I'm interested in learning more about the polyester plate lithography....
Maybe you can help Nik...
I've got a whole body of work done through drawing, monoprinting, and digitally...which resides in the computer.  The only way to see them is to turn the computer on or print them out.
Printing on Rives Lightweight is about the best I can do...but I have a real aversion to absolutely identical prints, which my Epson 2200 does wonderfully...but I can do better..
I know how to print...
I just don't know what to get these images out onto which would allow me to print...
I'm sort of hoping for some process that is not going to require massive amounts of financial outlay to get unusual machines for tricky processes.

Somewhere I ran into some information about these plates which can be imaged by drawing on them, or with a printer/copy machine?? I may have remembered this wrong...but now I've got to find out.
Any suggestions?  I'll do homework...
thanks...Linda

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Nik Semenoff
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Re: Etching copper plates
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2008, 11:07:49 AM »

Hi Linda:

Somehow I missed there was another post in this section, so I must apologize.  I have finished my research into etching copper using basically a variation of the copper sulfate mordant I developed years ago. In fact it can be modified to etch a copper plate, but I suggest making up a special bath.  I had told Alfons Bytautas at Edinburgh Print Studio about the process and met with him recently while I was there giving a workshop on waterless lithography. He has taken one of the possible various  formula and is already using it for etching copper plates. He will likely be teaching it there as well because of its' environmentally safer features. He and I will write an article for Printmaking Today for hopeful publication, but in the meantime I will do up a paper that will be posted on my blog here and at the university website with my other innovations.

I showed the process to printmakers at two Dublin print studios as well; they were very much impressed with the sharpness of the lines and ease of making up the bath.
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Alfons
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Re: Etching copper plates
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2008, 12:11:49 PM »

Hi Nik...

Good to see the info on using the cupric chloride is now on the website.  I've been using this now for etching zinc as well as copper with very encouraging results.  This etch works very well with the acrylic grounds and aquatints that we're using here in our studio in Edinburgh.  I'm looking forward to progressing from making test plates to producing some real prints!

Thanks for your help & inspiration.

Alfons
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Alfons
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Re: Etching copper plates
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2008, 03:34:23 PM »

Nik

Had to describe the new etch to a friend who works in a university print department.  she was concerned about having to use hydrochloric acid and so I wrote a reply to encourage her to use it.  Thought I would put my reply on the site to encourage others to experiment too.

Alfons

Etching with Cupric Chloride

After consulting with Nik Semenoff (I was lucky enough to meet Nik personally during his trip to the UK), I’ve been experimenting using acrylic resists and biting the plates in a new etch.  One of the ways in which this can be made is by using copper sulphate crystals and household salt with the addition of small amounts of hydrochloric acid and hydrogen peroxide.

Using the ingredients listed we can make the new mordant - cupric chloride. This is made using copper sulphate (which we already use) and adding salt and a small amount of hydrochloric acid and hydrogen peroxide (provides oxygen and is a contact lens cleaner, hair bleach and mouthwash!).  This produces a bright green solution, which at about 36 degrees Baume can be used to bite copper.  Diluted it appears blue (it looks exactly the same as the copper sulphate bath) and can be used to bite zinc and aluminium.

The beauty of cupric chloride is that it can be regenerated, so you will never need to dispose of the solutions.  You can regenerate a bath by adding hydrogen peroxide and/or (small) amounts of hydrochloric acid.  Although you need to use hydrochloric to make or regenerate the mix, the cupric chloride solution itself is pretty safe.

Making the solution this way is probably the safest & easiest, at least it was for me.  You can also make cupric chloride by biting copper in a solution of hydrochloric acid (referred to as muriatic acid in the states and available in hardware stores) and hydrogen peroxide.  Environmentally, because it can be regenerated, cupric chloride has much to recommend it and is used to etch printed circuits (PCB’s) - along with the now much used ferric chloride.

Etching copper, the solution produces a fine accurate bite and an excellent range of tone in aquatint.  It looks and behaves similarly to the traditional “Dutch Mordant” etchant, allegedly used by Rembrandt.  However it produces little in the way of fumes, similar to ferric chloride, as long as you don’t add too much hydrochloric acid to the bath.

Etching zinc (or aluminium) it behaves identically to the copper sulphate or “salt etch” baths – with an added bonus that the coppery residue produced when biting is re-absorbed back into the solution over time.  Small amounts are absorbed quickly while the residue from heavy biting generally clears overnight.  So far I’ve found the bath of cupric chloride lasts much longer (in our open access studio in Edinburgh) than an equivalent bath of copper sulphate solution – and this could then be regenerated too.  This means the solution is now relatively low maintenance.

I made the change to using the cupric chloride for biting zinc without any of my fellow etchers noticing any difference – except that it seemed to perform better and we had nice residue-free baths most of the time.

This is a significant development in fine art etching chemistry and, although I’m still experimenting with the mixes and their dilutions (when I can find time), I enthusiastically recommend the use of this mordant. I’m grateful to Nik Semenoff for sharing his expert knowledge with me.  His website contains a lot of information and is invaluable if you wish to find out more about this new etchant.



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malikov
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Re: Etching copper plates
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2008, 04:31:09 AM »

Hi all etchers-
I have just joined and feel so excited to be among fellow etchers and print makers.
I am a National College of Arts, Lahore Pakistan's graduate of 1965 batch....(ages ago..). I spent all my life in Television and Advertising but mostly teaching anything and everything....
Presently I head the Rwalpindi Campus and planing to invite any top expert to do a two week workshop there...
I came back to print making after about 40 long years and day before I made my first batch of prints 15x22 inches intaglio & engraving. What I am trying to do is have control over gum-chromate phtotransfering for etching on Aluminum with ferric chloride or the sulphate process.
Any one there to help me in preparing the chromated gum and how to make and develop the plates..I shall be obliged..
nsir malik    Pakistan
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Nik Semenoff
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Re: Etching copper plates
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2009, 10:20:21 PM »

I have just received information from Alfons at Edinburgh Printstudio, who has been researching and testing the cupric chloride mordant I introduced him to. He is very positive about the advantages it has over traditional mordants, especially ferric chloride for copper. He is the etcher who is most knowledgeable on this process as I am not an etcher and only do interesting research into such matters. He and I will put together an article and hope to find a publisher. He hopes to assemble more data on his research so he can publish it on the home page of this site as one of my blogs. I look forward to his results and recommendations,as should all etchers. If others have begun to use this process, I would invite you all to give your impressions and any technical data that you think might be of use to the print community at large. That is why these forums have been set up.
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Alfons
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Re: Etching copper plates
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2009, 06:53:57 AM »

Nik

Bravo - the new addition to the blog, regarding the chemistry of the copper sulphate mordant is a 'tour de force'.  You have written clearly and succinctly on the matter - a invaluable contribution to the understanding of etching chemistry.

Like many etchers as you say, I must admit to having little or no knowledge of chemistry (how I now wish I had been keen on the subject at school!) but this all makes sense and is easy to digest.   I think there will be an increased interest in all this soon as I hear many university print departments here in the UK, previously resistant to looking at safer methods and etch solutions, are at last being forced to reconsider under threat by their Health & Safety officers.

We etchers owe you a great debt!

Alfons

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Nik Semenoff
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Re: Etching copper plates
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2009, 02:05:55 PM »

To all etchers looking for safer processes

In the last couple of days, I  have uploaded an article on how to remove all the harmful metal compounds from the spent mordant before pouring it down the drain. We must make these metal compounds insoluble to water, so I have found a cheap, safe and readily available product one can find in most communities. If you put all the recent posted articles on etching plates with variations of copper sulfate, this last one will allow you to use this mordant, which is the safest I know of, and still dispose of a clean liquid down the drain. There is no reason not to try in and use it like many are already.
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PeterMac
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Re: Etching copper plates
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2009, 08:03:37 PM »

Dear Mr. Seminoff,

Currently, here at Hongik U. (Seoul), we are using Ferric Chloride for copper etching. I will suggest that they consider your etching solution.

Do you know of a comparable alternative to Nitric Acid for zinc etching? They have abandoned zinc etching altogether here due to the toxic nature of nitric acid... And, a student managed to drop a plate into the bath with a splash.

Regards,

Peter M
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Nik Semenoff
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Re: Etching copper plates
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2009, 09:03:27 PM »

Hi Peter:
If you are only etching zinc, I would suggest using copper sulfate and common salt with some sodium bisulfate so the bath will regenerate. All of that is on the home page of this blog site. There has been enough written about using copper sulfate on etching aluminium and zinc, you should have little problem finding the information. All the latest developments on this new mordant are on this blog site, but there is an article being published in Printmaking Today in the next edition. Alfons has one coming in the next edition. Alfons it the expert on etching metal and you can find what he thinks about the mordant.

I am glad you find this forum and blog helpful.

Cheers
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PeterMac
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Re: Etching copper plates
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2009, 07:52:01 AM »

Thank you for the information, Nik... I will go beyond my initial cursory search.

Gombei!

Peter M
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Alfons
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Re: Etching copper plates
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2009, 09:43:14 AM »

The way forward for safe and efficient etching of plate seems to me to use a saline sulphate bath for zinc and the cupric bath for copper.  Currently the recipes I use are:

Cupric Chloride Etch (for copper)

250g Sodium Bisulphate - 1000ml water = 20 Degrees Be / SP 1.16

350g Salt - 1000ml Water = 23 degrees Be / SP 1.1885 (some excess salt)

400 ml Hydrogen Peroxide 12%

Above mixed together

Add 400g Copper Sulphate

* You may need to add a further 200g salt & 100g Copper Sulphate to adjust specific gravity of mix

Final Cupric Chloride Mix = 30 degrees Baume (Heavy Scale) / SP 1.2609

Copper Sulphate /Salt Etch (for zinc)

a) Stock Solution:
Copper sulphate - 250 grams
Water – 2.5 litres

I litre of stock solution: add 300 grams Salt (solution turns green)
 
Working Solution= 2 parts Stock Solution:3 parts water

Add 1500 ml water to 1 litre Stock Solution to produce above solution (12 degrees Baume)

*Add water to lower strength of working solution

b) 100 grams copper sulphate / 1 litre of water 
Add 300 grams of salt (solution turns green)

*This can then be diluted 1:1 or 3 parts water to 2 parts of the above solution.


Hope this is a usful addition to Nik's info.  Happy etching!

Alfons


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